Our national situation,ethics and hopes with foreign members

The reptile hobby in France : monopoles ,business laws ,bribery and illegality .
This is what French hobbyists are facing every day .

A) THE LAWS

Here are a quick look at the French Laws concerning reptiles:

-CITES and European laws are recognized by French authorities.

-The Rural Code defines a list of dangerous species which are forbidden in captivity ,save a special permit delivered by authorities,among which snakes above 10 ft. Long ,varanids such as komodoensis or salvadorii .It also points out interdictions about invasive species ,such as Trachemys scripta elegans or Rana catesbeiana .

-The CDC (Certificate of Capacity ) is required for all venomous snakes ,spiders ,for Annex I animals ,and from a certain number of specimens in private homes .Uromastyx species ,for example ,are subjected to the CDC ,as well as private owners of more than 3 Boa constrictor imperator.

-Exports from French overseas territories is strictly forbidden .The Guyana Act forbids the possession on the French soil of species from French Guyana ,without any subspecies distinction ,i.e. Corallus caninus ,Dendrobates tinctorius ,Epicrates cenchria ...This applies to species ,not to the origin of the specimens :an Epicrates cenchria alvarezi from Argentina is as forbidden as his cousin from Guyana .

-The whole reptile and amphibian French fauna is completely protected ,save the green frog (Rana x esculenta ).

This is theory ,now practice :

-A lot of reptile owners who would require the CDC ,including venomous snakes owners ,don’t have it ,they prefer to stay out of the laws rather than having their reptile rooms visited by authorities .

-Online shops display advertisements for Guyana fauna ,or large monitors.I had a case of a well-known Paris shop which has sold a Varanus salvator to a non-CDC 17 yr old lad .

-A lot of people catch local fauna by ignorance of the laws ,and the rule of behaviour on French forums is to give them help and advice to keep these animals in captivity ,regadless of the laws ,saying “they will free the animals later”,but how much really do it?

-Venomous or poisonous animals owners make pressure so that dangers are minimized ,even though the effects of toxins may vary from one individual to another ,and many people continue the trade of lethal snakes or spiders without being annoyed .Some shops sell venomous species to unauthorized people ,as long as you have the money ,everything is fine .

-Some shops do not hesitate to claim animals as with a CITES number in front of the vivaria at the same time ...wouldn’t there be a mistake?
-Some forbidden fauna owners do not hesitate to show off on French forums ,displaying pictures of themselves with Annex I or Guyana fauna .No trouble is made to them ,neither from auhorities nor from forums caretakers .

-CDC is a complex procedure ,sometimes unfair :only 5% of Herp hobbyists have it ,others fear with more or less justification the lack of competence of the CDC commissions ,and many prefer to stay clandestine owners not to get trouble with authorities .Thus ,blackmail and denunciations between hobbyists do occur .

B) TRADE PRACTICES

The situation in France is very peculiar : three wholesale dealers have the monopole on the market .Most of their animals are imports ,in poor conditions ,which are dispatched all over the countries in pet shops .Rentability is the norm : it is less risky ,and less bad for the shop image ,to send dying animals to local pet shops rather than displaying them in their own precincts .CB animals are generally bought 10 to 20 % of the price to private hobbyists or breeding centres ,WC wholesale price being even lower ,and their price multiplied by 5 to 10 in many cases for the customer .

Such wholesale dealers have exclusivity contracts with powerful garden shop groups or pet shop groups .A Pantherophis guttatus bought 5 € to a private breeder is resold 50 to 70 € by the same people .The benefits of a sole of these wholesale traders were estimed to more than a million € per year by very relevant economic studies .So ,the animals are from the same origin when you buy them in Paris or in a small town ,and suffered the same travel conditions .One of these dealers is trying to get a positive image through opening a quarantine and breeding center ,but continues massive importations .You cannot properly care about 500 ball pythons coming at the same time from an African “Farming” center .So mortality rates ,within the shops and at the customer’s places ,remain very high .

Competence : trying to cheat the customer is the common lot .A kid can get out a pet shop without basic information about the green iguana baby he has just bought .In many cases ,traders prefer not to say that these iguanas can get big ,as long as the “merchandise” is sold .

We have also the common case of local pet shops who do not even know the names and origins of the animals they receive .I have seen an Uromastyx geyri in a 40x40x80 cm glass tank and 90% hygrometry .I have witnessed a shop girl trying to feed ball pythons with locusts .I have seen Teratoscincus and Physignatus housed together in shops .In my hometown,snakes are presented in the local shop in plastic boxes ,laying on their own shits ,and you have to tell the dealer there are corpses in his vivaria because he will not remove them otherwise ,or simply not pay attention .

Many people on forums give advice to newbies ,but tragic stories are fairly common .Many also criticize the shops ,and launch debates ,but most debates are locked or ignored .

Even more tragic to my point of view are the dealers selling any species to anyone ,with or without competence on the side of the customer .I have helped a 14 yr old boy who thought reading a plain care sheet on a book was enough to successful Uroplatus care .Yet ,he had no problem buying his animal at the dealer’s .

Endangered species ,which are not easy to care and breed ,are sold to anyone who has the money ,and importers do not hesitate to import single specimens ,thus depriving the animals from any possibility to be sold in couples for future breeding .The boy I mentionned before purchased an Uroplatus sikorae sameiti ,a male of a very rare subspecies ,without any notion of proper care and of parasite treatment .People think first about their pleasure before being responsible citizens of the planet ,and showing off with the latest imports or dangerous species seem more important than animal welfare ,civil responsibilities and endangered species preservation .

In the latter case ,I would have advised to sell the animal in the hands of an experienced breeder of the Genus ,but in my own country I sound an heretic .

C) LOBBYING

Several lobbyings exist in the French Herp trade :

-The “morphs” lobbying : morph market is really popular here .One shall not forget that some morphs are obtained through genetic manipulations .Showing off with bizarre morphs has become a fashion ,so that many other species are ignored ,and high prices are artificially maintained by the breeders .Morph lovers circles generally respond to any criticism of their business very haughtily and aggressively ,because it is a lucrative market ,and behind their animal lovers masks ,there are too often people who see in morphs a means to get richer ,regardless of the ethical aspects ,and willingly blind to the genetic deficiencies it creates on animals :for instance ,the situation with our F30 Chamaeleo calyptratus is critical ,more babies are born with severe troubles than normal babies hatch from the egg .Leopard geckoes babies die of genetic muscular atrophy which generates guts prolapsus ,because the lineages are too often interbred to obtain the miraculous morphs .Morph lovers have their own specialized forums on which they mainly sell and buy animals .It’s not a good idea to come to this kind of forum if you do not agree with them ,and any disturbing speech is laughed at .

-Wholesale dealers rule :in France ,we see the same handful of people running both the market and every aspect of the hobby : they rely on their celebrity ,through appearences on TV shows ,their friendships with some scientists ,to do what they want .They are present in hobbyists associations ,them and their close friends have the monopole on the sole French Herp Book editor and the sole French reptile magazine :thus ,they can control the data and incitate people to buy useless products ,to purchase inadequate items ,or to spend more money than they should .As French people are too often poor in langages ,foreign research remains unknown by the vast majority .Thus ,a famous French vet ,who is a close partner of one of these wholesale dealers ,has constantly recommended the use of Panacur ,even though a majority of foreign studies put into obviousness its toxicity among reptiles .Why?Did he have an agreement with a chemist lab?We may wonder .Articles in the French specialized press or in books are often filled with approximations ,inexactitudes ,and most of the time signed by this handful of professionals (but do they deserve the word?).By controlling associative life ,they also run the business the way they like .Heads of the biggest French herp hobbyists associations are indeed taken by a good proportion of these professionals .

-Web forums control :French biggest web forums are runned by people who are close to these professionals and who agree with their business methods .I have spent a certain time pointing on problems on the biggest of them ,discussing on topics which they were reluctant to talk about (because I was not on the “right political line” of the worshippers of the wholesale traders ).The speech is confusing :they do not publicly admit their connivence ,but oddly we find the same caretakers on the bigger forums ,and as a stiking fact ,I will simply quote this :there was a topic with a debate on one of these wholesale dealers and pet trader ,and today,all those who were against it are banned from the forum ,including myself ,and only the “pro” remain .They try to impose a single voice and the same rules of practice to protect the national traders .

-Media control :the same handful of "celebrities" from the herp business appear on TV shows,which do not contribute to give a positive opinion on the public unfamiliar with reptiles.They do so for personal aims ,not to promote our leisure.


So who’s that guy talking to you about another country problems in the herp hobby,and why the hell should you give a damn attention to this ?

D) The Dragons d’Asgard project and its aim :

In October 2005 ,I created a forum on herps called Les Dragons d’Asgard .It could seem a forum among others ,but it is not ,eh eh .

-First it has developped through discussions ,and after an overview of everything that was wrong in the herp world of our country ,an ETHICAL section ,dealing with concrete cases of practices we condemn and disapprove.

-It has elaborated a CODE OF CONDUCT which is also a petition against all the oddities of our national situation ,members are invited if they wish to to sign up this ,and when the number of signatures will be significant ,it will be transmitted to competent authorities .We prone the respect of current laws ,the will to do whatever possible to conform to French laws concerning herp keeping ,changes in trade practices ,the limitation of imports ,the limitation of the “morphs” madness ,the welfare of captive animals wherever they are ,warnings against the dangers of venomous species (which are forbidden on our forum ),and so on .We believe if we show a “clean” face to public opinion and to the legislator ,things will evolve positively .

But it is easy to criticize ,and have endless pessimistic chats .We chose to act and build up new things instead of talking in sh*t.

Our aim is to grow bigger and to play a role in our country :

-a role with authorities ,so that there will not be a single speech from hobbyists (too often on the trade /morph/venomous side ).

-a role as responsible citizens ,applying laws and showing to the legislator we are not these crazy freaks keeping man-eating wild snakes at home and needing repressive laws ton control them.

- the creation of an association to promote our ethics code .

-the elaboration of a reliable database on a vast majority of species ,through the writing of care sheets really based on experience ,not only readings ,to complete articles we can not find in our language yet ,to technical and practical sheets about vivarium technology ,food ,diseases ...both accessible to the newbie and satisfactory for the expert .

-this database once completed could lead to an independant publishing on our data ,to offer the French something else than the crap we have for reptile books .Considering also that literature in English or German is much more accurate and developped ,and holds many lore most of our fellows cannot enjoy because of the language barrier .

We are not eco –extremists ,we are not famous scientists ,not dangerous terrorists nor justice-makers ,just people eager to see things change in their own country ,to have healthier pets in a more healthy situation .

Here is what we asked ,on the name of the forum staff and members ,to people here who are interested :

-the registration and participation of foreign members to our debates ,database ,as long as you find some interest in it .This is for example sharing with us your herp experiences ,your photos ,care sheets you made on your own .The more reliable data we get ,the better we will do our “job” .

-the signature on our code of conduct,which I will soon translate into English ,if you wish to do so, to give more weight to our ethics code ,and more weight when the time will come to give the petition in responsible hands .

-the pleasure of sharing and informal exchanges with our hilarious team .

-the opportunity to compare practices in the herp hobby ,mentalities ,and to a mutual enrichement .

You can push our door,it’s wide open .Please support us .

The Dragons d’Asgard Team ,members and its silly creator .

A question as your national election for president nears, but what are the stands on your animal laws by the two candidates Nicolas Sarkozy, and Segolene Royal?

Absolutely no idea.There were rumors for more restrictions to come,for example Heterodon nasicus is fully legal without a keeper's license here,but may not be in the future.